Allan:
Tell me about the European Sessions. You’ve put a ‘band’ together for
this as opposed to hiring individual session musicians...
James:
You would know in the world that we’re in there is a gig and you’ve
got a bass player then you need someone on piano then it’s not necessarily
a band, but a collection of very fine musicians, but it’s not a band.
So once you get to a stage that the guys write material for those
musicians, and when I wrote things I did it in mind that Pierre would
be playing and so on. So you write for that band and everything that
band plays is written for the band by the band and it has a different
feel than who is on bass tonight and what do you want to play.
Allan:
What’s the approach to the recording technique. Did you all play live
and straight down?
James:
Yep. We just needed to be that way for the type of music. We actually
started with a bit of isolation. We did it at the Bauer Studios in
Germany and, of course, there’s lots of history in that place. I’ve
got several recordings of Miles Davis there. So we got in there and
we started with some isolation, you know, like a bit of a booth around
the drums. Engineers often like to do that. We started and then we
stopped and we said this is not working musically and we ended up
setting up so that we were all actually facing the one way. Just like
we would in a gig, close together, and then it all happened musically.
I said you can capture the sound, I don’t need the isolation, because
if we play like this you are not going to want to drop anything out
because it’s not that sort of music, and it worked wonderfully.
Allan:
Sounds like you needed a live audience in there.
James:
Just about, yeah. We all faced the one way, rather than at each other
and we were looking at the control room and there were several people
in there having a listen and we basically played to this audience
of six. But it was great and it was in the middle of a tour which
is always great. The night before we had been in concert somewhere
and we had been on the road for sort of a week or two and it was a
performance in the middle of the tour captured. You’re really relaxed
and warmed up and you get into this rhythm of playing each night and
we travel together and eat together. You get this sort of feeling
that it’s like a family. If you have a night off, you get this funny
feeling that we all should be doing something. We had the day to just
sit around and eat and do other things and talk about it and we went
in just like we were going to a gig and that was the rhythm. It was
time to play.
Allan:
You wouldn’t happen to know what type of studio equipment you were using
to capture that like what kind of microphones for example?
James:
We mainly used Neumanns, especially on my horns. We didn’t use a pick
up on the bass and plug that into an amp then mic it or anything like
that. We just put a microphone quite away away, like where you would
stand like five or six metres away from the bass sound. So that’s
where we put the mic to capture the sound because if you put your
ear next to the ƒ hole on the bass it doesn’t sound like it does when
you stand a few feet in front of it. It actually sounds better.
Allan:
So does that apply to horns?
James:
It does to a certain extent. I probably had quite a distance from
the mic to the horn compared to what you might normally see, but to
do that of course you have to have a great room. Or if the room’s
very dead then the sound isn’t that great a few feet away, you tend
to mic it close and then get into the digital reverb and all that.
But we had great sounding room.
Allan:
Does it have an echo room. You know an empty room, just behind you where
it’s just picking up natural echo.
James:
There is natural echo, but it’s not done like that. There are different
surfaces in the room. You get advice from the engineer on where to
set up and we got this great sound. He just stood there and said yeah
the band sounds great here, now all we’ve got to do is capture that
with the microphone. So you just put them where you would stand to
listen to it, to a certain extent. That’s just another way of approaching
it and he was recording on a 48 track digital Studer It’s nice to
see a Studer. After all those years, I’m sure many of us have done
recordings on the Studer analogue recorders and it’s nice to see a
modern digital Studer, which means that they’re staying in the game.
For a while there they just sort of went digitial. So we know everything
is going digital, if it hasn’t already gone, but a nice machine. Right
down to the sort of woodgrain on the controls. You know totally unnecessary,
but a bit of tactile sensation there.
Allan:
Did you use a producer?
James:
Basically we do it ourselves in the situation like that. I mean it’s
not like a situation where you would go to the control room and talk
to a producer and say I think this and I think that because it’s a
performance and what it is is what it is and there may be some things
in there that technically speaking, I don’t mean from a recording
point of view, I mean from a playing point of view that aren’t perfect,
but I don’t produce it and say come on let’s have another go at that
because that note was a bit ... that takes away from what that sort
of recording is about.
Allan:
It’s what it is that’s the key to it?
James:
Yeah, there are recordings where you do do that, you go and fix notes
and you do this and you do that and that’s for a different reason,
but this is about a feeling, a groove, and a vibe. You know that’s
not a fix for that type of situation.
Allan:
It’s a feel?
James:
And that feel is more important than whether I split a note. I mean
Miles (Davis) made a career out of splitting notes and it sounded
great.
Allan:
You have a beautiful album then... Are you happy with it?
James:
Yeah, yeah, I am. It does what it was supposed to do, you know, I
mean I don’t think you ever listen to anything where, and I’m sure
you are the same where you go, gee I could have done this better or
that better or I would like to do that differently, but the fact of
the matter is that as we just said it’s now what it’s about it does
what it was supposed to do and it captures how we were playing and
how we were feeling at that time.
Allan:
Great, let’s talk about the electronic trumpet that you are developing
in Newcastle. Can you describe it for us?
James:
To a certain extent it is in development.
Allan:
Is it a secret?
James:
Yes, it is. The details are a secret, obviously because it’s a technological
work in development. But the idea behind it is that there are all
these wonderful worlds of sounds available ... and instruments that
you can create and this is very exciting to me, but you have to be
a keyboard player to access this. There have been certain things you
know ... Akai made some. I’ve got one of the Akai trumpets and one
of Yamaha’s saxophones.
Allan:
They are a force.
James:
Yeah, Nothing yet, as a trumpeter has really done it, you know what
I mean.
Allan:
You mean like a kind of keyboard sound?
James:
And it just doesn’t quite take advantage of your breath and your lip
position and everything enough and none of them really accepted standard
trumpet fingering to a great extent.
Allan:
So can you create harmonies and chords with it?
James:
Yes you can. But what we’re really looking for is that a trumpeter
can pick this up and whilst, of course, it’s not a trumpet, it will
have certain controls and things that are necessary for a trumpet
to have. It will respond and feel like a trumpet, but then be able
to access all these other sounds, and one of the biggest things it
can access is like an eight octave range. You know that you just can’t
access on a trumpet and things like that and so we’re working on getting
around the technicalities without making it a technical thing to play.
That’s the trouble with any of them that I have tried so far, they
end up being like typing rather than playing, so we’re trying to make
it work like that, plus it’s got to have a vibe about it, like an
instrument. Like when I pick up a trumpet and look at it with that
big flared bell and you know it looks like a gun, you know. It looks
like a weapon, it looks like an instrument of some sort of energy.
Most performers do, like when you pick it up. You know if you got
a person from another planet and said well have a look at this, I
mean it looks like it’s for blowing in one end and sound coming out
the other. It’s got this thing about it. I think that’s somehow important
to a musician, when you pick up a thing that looks like a stick with
buttons on it you have already got this feeling like I am now going
to control the sound from here down rather than make the sound here.
Steve Marshall is the guy that I am working on it with. He’s the boss
and he is one of these electronic and engineering wizards and I’m
sort of the musical side of things and the trumpet player, although
he is an amateur trumpet player himself, so this is why he got interested
in it in the first place. But what we are trying to do is create an
instrument that looks serious and you go, hey this is something for
playing and makes you feel a certain way about the music before you
pick it up and that what it is more of an holistic approach to this
rather than sort of the approach of starting with silicon chips and
working back.
Allan:
Tell us about your experiences with the concerto for trumpet jazz trio
orchestras that we did together for the Adelaide Symphony orchestra
last year...
James:
When you get together to make music with one other person it’s a whole
different world than doing it on your own of course and then as you
add more people there is collective music being made. To me the whole
idea of standing there with the number of musicians that you are with
in itself creates an atmosphere. Then the fact that you are taking
the symphony orchestra, which has a vibe all of its own and it’s got
this huge sort of tradition and as well as apart from the actual sound
that is available, it is just this thing, that sitting in front of
the symphony orchestra things get serious. Mixing that with a jazz
trio and a soloist straight away to me is either going to go one way
or the other. It’s either going to be... well you are going to say
well you know let’s just try to put these things together, but they
don’t really go together ,and that I’ve heard happen many times unfortunately.
Here’s a bit of trio, here’s a bit of symphony, here’s a bit of trio.
Or it’s going to go the other way and somehow, and I’ll tell you how
in a sec, it excels and it becomes a new instrument. The symphony
orchestra, the trio and the soloist is an instrument. If that happens
then it’s greater than …..some of its parts and it’s very exciting
to be a part of and the way that it happens is the composer. We can
interpret it, we can put ourselves into it as we do, but if the composer
hasn’t given us this instrument to play and he has given us two instruments
that don’t go together well then it’s all lost at the start, and in
this case, of course, it just worked from the word go. The trio played
differently than they would have in any other time and the orchestra
played differently than they would have in any other time, and we
met. We met, not in the middle, but we met in another place. We met
on planet Zavod. (laughter all round) It took us all to a new place.
You created a setting for us to meet at. So yes, in essence, in a
long answer to your question. It is a major thing because the chances
of that happening are so slim and it happens in so few times in your
life that when they do it is a major event. It is a musical event
that is not only a gig, but far more than that it is one of those
things that shapes your musical being.
Allan:
How do you see its future as part of your repertoire?
James:
Well I guess there are two sides to that. One is ... the more opportunities
for us to play it and for people to hear it is very important. That
is the upside. The downside is of course that the nature of the work,
if it was a thing for piano and trumpet we could do it every night
of the week starting tomorrow, but the fact is that it does require
a symphony orchestra and a lot of rehearsal and a lot of logistics
which means that it is not going to happen every night. In a way perhaps
there is a place for that too. It just makes it all the more special
when it does happen. Not something that you just do at the drop of
a hat. You know just one other thing for the magazine about things
like this... there is a need... there is a hunger for them. People
are looking for new works, innovative works. Things that they want
to be fantastic. It will always to be wonderful to hear the great
classical composers played by a symphony orchestra and it will always
be wonderful to hear jazz groups playing Duke Ellington, but people
want to hear this century’s and this time’s Duke Ellingtons so far.
Mozart
couldn’t write a symphony orchestra in jazz trio with a soloist. It
didn’t exist. So that’s really what it is. People say well where is
the next thing coming from. They want to hear new music.
Allan:
Now tell me a bit about the scholarship fund you have just been doing.
It is now a very well known thing, but I’d like to discuss it with you.
I know your heart is in it too.
James:
It is the James Morrison Jazz Scholarship. It is presented by a group
of people called Generations in Jazz and the reason they exist as
the names suggests is that is started with a bunch of, as they call
themselves old blokes, who have been playing jazz all their lives
and they wanted to do something to foster young talent. So under their
auspice it was set up. Now this year is now the tenth year of the
scholarship. And we’re really thrilled about how it has gone and grown
over the years. Along the way we set the six finalists and soloists
to come and there is one winner. We wanted to involve more people
and they said well what about the next level down from there is stage
bands. A little bit younger than that kid. Well then what are they
doing? Well they are in high school playing in stage bands. So we
started a national stage band competition and that started out with
five or six bands, which was around 100 kids and that’s grown over
the last five years, this year we had 21stage bands from all over
the country. They get in buses and some travel 12000 kms to come.
Allan:
Where is it?
James:
In Mt Gambier it takes place.
Allan:
I see, so that’s where you’ve just been on the weekend.
James:
Yeah. So all that is taking place and they have some pieces of their
own choice to do and then I also write like a test piece, a set piece
for them all to do each year. It’s just wonderful the involvement.
Of course the great thing is that all those young kids who are in
the average age of 14-15 in these stage bands can just sit there and
watch the 19 year olds who are the soloists perform and they are the
ones going for the scholarships. That inspires them. We
have found now that over the last few years that some of our finalists,
quite a few of them now are former stage band people that have been
before. It’s creating this sort of path, if you like, that where do
I go if I love jazz, but I’m just in a big band at school what do
I do next? Well now this is just pointing the way of other things
that they can do to help further their career. I think what jazz is
about as far as this side of things goes is maybe ... call it jazz
education, and sometimes I hesitate to use that term because you don’t
really teach people to play jazz, but what it is about really is that
jazz is a old tradition that is passed on from generation to generation.
You don’t learn jazz out of a book. There are some wonderful books
to read to get some insights, but in the end you listen to people
play who are further down the track from you and get inspired to learn
from them and so on and so on, for generations, this is what has been
happening, and that’s what it is about and really I look at the greatest
opportunity here is just how it happened for me getting to play with
older musicians and people that had been doing it longer and better
than me. Now there is an opportunity, as you say, for young kids to
hear what we do because we perform for them on the weekend too and
on it goes and one day the 14 year old who played a great saxophone
solo that I heard and I got him up on the last day to do a bit of
a blow with us. Well one day he is going to be 55 and he’s going to
be playing and young people are going to be listening to him and getting
inspired and saying well I want to sound like that. I just think that
that is the survival of the music.
Allan:
Well you learned to play both classically and in a jazz way. You had
no formal classical training. Would you recommend formal music training?
James:
Well yes and no. It’s a sensible question, but one that doesn’t really
have a valid answer. Well what it is is that there is no practising
technique as such. In retrospect there is, but there is no approach
to it that way. I mean, it is kind of like saying that someone went
to school and learned carpentry and learned how to make a chair and
another guy was given a chair. If you sit there and look at how a
chair is made long enough and have several goes and the first ones
won’t work... but after a while if you keep looking at this chair,
this good one and trying, you will find a way of making a chair. Once
you learned a way to copy that chair and go right back and say now
I want to make a chair like I want, but I’ve learned how to make chairs.
That’s really all I did, just listened to these people and tried and
played. You know sometimes it would be woeful, and you get better
and better and you strive for this sound, and you say look I want
to sound like that, I want to do this and after a while you go okay,
now I know what they are doing, here’s what I would do and you gain
the skills first. It’s really just like that.
There
is nothing terribly difficult about it. There is no great mystery
to it. You know just look, listen, learn and try and eventually you
will work out what is going on rather than sitting down formally and
having someone explain it to you. And practice this and this will
lead you to be able to do that. You have just found your own path.
Allan:
I find some academic training doesn’t hurt for some.
James:
Not at all, for some people it’s essential, for others it’s just a
nice addition, but no, I don’t think it hurts at all, because we are
all heading for the same place. What I say to them is take every opportunity.
If someone says we have got a formal arranging lesson and would you
like to come, say yes please. If someone says well actually what I
am doing tonight is just jamming with no changes, do you want to come.
Yes I do. Take it all, experience it all from every angle.
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